What Does al-‘Ama Mean in the Hadith of Tirmidhi?

Answered by Mawlana Ilyas Patel

Question

I am a new revert. Regarding a hadith in Jami at-Tirmidhi 3109, it says ‏ كَانَ فِي عَمَاءٍ مَا تَحْتَهُ هَوَاءٌ. Allah was “in” a cloud before creation, not “above,” but some translations say “above” as an interpretation.

How could Allah be “inside” a cloud, since a cloud is created and cannot contain the Creator? This hadith is weakening my faith.

Answer

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful and Compassionate

Allah Most High continuously increase you in sound faith, good actions, and a high spiritual state.

The hadith you are referring to is as follows:

Hadith 3109 -Tirmidhi

Narrated Waki’ bin Hudus from his uncle Abu Razin, who said: “I said: ‘O Messenger of Allah! Where was our Lord before He created His creation?’ He said: ‘He was (above) the clouds, no air was under him, no air was above him, and He created His Throne upon the water.’”

Ahmad [bin Mani’] said: “Yazid bin Harun (Imam Tirmidhi’s teacher’s teacher) said (regarding) al-Ama’ – ‘It means there was nothing with him.” [Tirmidhi]

Summary Explanation

The hadith means that Allah existed before anything else, without a place, space, or surroundings. The phrase “in ‘ama’, with no air above it or below it” does not describe a real cloud or physical thing; rather, it is a way of denying place and containment altogether.

Scholars explain that this wording was used to help people understand that nothing existed with Allah—no space, no direction, no environment.

If the ‘ama were something real, it would have to be created, which would contradict the meaning of the hadith.

The mention of air is only to block false imagination, since anything physical normally needs air or space. The core meaning is the same as the authentic statement: “Allah was, and nothing was with Him, and He is now as He always was.”

The Phrase’ fi al-Ama

Mulla Ali al-Qari (Allah have mercy on him) explains that “al-‘ama’ (the cloud/obscurity)” refers to something that cannot be imagined by the mind nor grasped by reason. It is a way of expressing the absence of place by mentioning something that cannot be perceived or conceived.

Likewise, saying “air” is meant to deny that anything surrounded or contained Him, because “air” is often used to mean empty space, which itself means the absence of bodies. This wording was used only to make the meaning more understandable to the listener.

The phrase “no air above it and no air beneath it” was added to prevent people from imagining a physical cloud or place, since clouds cannot exist without air.

This is similar to the expression “Both His hands are right”, which is meant for perfection, not physical description.

Wise Teaching Style of the Prophet

Imam Tibi (Allah have mercy on him), who is a teacher of the author of Mishkat al-Masabih, concludes that the answer follows a wise teaching style:

The question was about place, but the answer redirected to possibility — meaning: if this were a place, then it would itself be in a place, which is impossible. This gently guides the listener away from imagining a location for Allah.

Yazid ibn Harun (one of the narrators) explained that “al-‘ama’ means: nothing was with Him.”

This also points to the saying of some of the people of gnosis: “Allah was, and nothing was with Him—and now He is as He always was.” And it points to Allah’s saying: “Everything upon it will perish.” [Al-Qari, Mirqat al-Masabih, Sharh Mishkat al-Masabih]

I would like you to go through the valuable answers and links below. You will receive guidance and direction in sha Allah.

Related Answers

• Allah’s Relationship with Time and Space
  Explores how Allah exists beyond time and space while sustaining all creation.
• How Do We Understand Allah’s Transcendence in Relation …
  Clarifies the meaning of Allah’s transcendence without likening Him to created beings.
• If God Is Beyond Direction, How Do We Understand …
  Discusses how Islamic theology affirms Allah’s transcendence beyond physical direction and location.

Why not begin your search for knowledge by signing up for a course on SeekersAcademy (seekersguidance.org), such as those offered in the Islamic Studies Curriculum (seekersguidance.org), and build your way up, completing each course as you progress?

I pray this helps answer your question.

[Mawlana] Ilyas Patel
Checked and Approved by Shaykh Faraz Rabbani

Mawlana Ilyas Patel has received traditional education in various countries. He started his schooling in the UK and completed his hifz of the Quran in India. After that, he joined an Islamic seminary in the UK, where he studied secular and Aalimiyya sciences. Later, he traveled to Karachi, Pakistan, and other Middle Eastern countries to further his education. Mawlana has served as an Imam in the Republic of Ireland for several years and taught the Quran and other Islamic sciences to both children and adults. He also worked as a teacher and librarian at a local Islamic seminary in the UK for 12 years. Presently, he lives in the UK with his wife and is interested in books and gardening.

(مَا تَحْتَهُ هَوَاءٌ، وَمَا فَوْقَهُ هَوَاءٌ): مَا: نَافِيَةٌ فِيهِمَا، وَفِيهِ إِشَارَةٌ إِلَى مَا سَبَقَ فِي الْحَدِيثِ كَانَ اللَّهُ وَلَمْ يَكُنْ مَعَهُ شَيْءٌ. قَالَ الْقَاضِي: الْمُرَادُ بِالْعَمَاءِ مَا لَا تَقْبَلُهُ الْأَوْهَامُ وَلَا تُدْرِكُهُ الْعُقُولُ وَالْأَفْهَامُ، عَبَّرَ عَنْ عَدَمِ الْمَكَانِ بِمَا لَا يُدْرَكُ وَلَا يُتَوَهَّمُ، وَعَنْ عَدَمِ مَا يَحْوِيهِ وَيُحِيطُ بِهِ الْهَوَاءُ، فَإِنَّهُ يُطْلَقُ وَيُرَادُ بِهِ الْخَلَاءُ الَّذِي هُوَ عِبَارَةٌ عَنْ عَدَمِ الْجِسْمِ، لِيَكُونَ أَقْرَبَ إِلَى فَهْمِ السَّامِعِ، وَيَدُلُّ عَلَيْهِ أَنَّ السُّؤَالَ كَانَ عَمَّا خُلِقَ قَبْلَ أَنْ يَخْلُقَ خَلْقَهُ فَلَوْ كَانَ الْعَمَاءُ أَمْرًا مَوْجُودًا لَكَانَ مَخْلُوقًا، إِذْ مَا مِنْ شَيْءٍ سِوَاهُ إِلَّا وَهُوَ مَخْلُوقٌ خَلَقَهُ وَأَبْدَعَهُ، فَلَمْ يَكُنِ الْجَوَابُ طِبْقَ السُّؤَالِ، وَاللَّهُ تَعَالَى أَعْلَمُ بِالْحَالِ.

وَقِيلَ: فِي الْكَلَامِ حَذْفُ مُضَافٍ، كَمَا فِي قَوْلِهِ تَعَالَى: ﴿هَلْ يَنْظُرُونَ إِلَّا أَنْ يَأْتِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ﴾ [البقرة: ٢١٠] وَنَحْوِهِ، فَيَكُونُ التَّقْدِيرُ أَيْنَ كَانَ عَرْشُ رَبِّنَا؟ وَيَدُلُّ عَلَيْهِ قَوْلُهُ: ﴿وَكَانَ عَرْشُهُ عَلَى الْمَاءِ﴾ [هود: ٧]: الْمُطَابِقُ لِقَوْلِهِ سُبْحَانَهُ: وَكَانَ عَرْشُهُ عَلَى الْمَاءِ لِأَنَّهُ لَوْ لَمْ يَكُنِ السُّؤَالُ عَنِ الْعَرْشِ لَمَا كَانَ حَاجَةٌ لِلتَّعَرُّضِ إِلَيْهِ.

وَقَالَ الطِّيبِيُّ – رحمه الله: لَمْ يَفْتَقِرْ إِلَى التَّقْدِيرِ، وَلَا بُدَّ لِقَوْلِهِ فِي عَمَاءٍ بِالْمَدِّ مِنَ التَّأْوِيلِ، حَتَّى يُوَافِقَ الرِّوَايَةَ الْأُخْرَى عَمًّى مَقْصُورًا، وَمَا وَرَدَ فِي الصِّحَاحِ عَنْ عِمْرَانَ بْنِ حُصَيْنٍ: «كَانَ اللَّهُ وَلَمْ يَكُنْ شَيْءٌ قَبْلَهُ، وَكَانَ عَرْشُهُ عَلَى الْمَاءِ»، وَذَلِكَ أَنَّ قَوْلَهُ: ««مَا تَحْتَهُ هَوَاءٌ وَمَا فَوْقَهُ هَوَاءٌ»» جَاءَ تَتْمِيمًا صَوْنًا لِمَا يُفْهَمُ مِنْ قَوْلِهِ: فِي عَمَاءٍ مِنَ الْمَكَانِ، فَإِنَّ الْغَمَامَ الْمُتَعَارَفَ مُحَالٌ أَنْ يُوجَدَ بِغَيْرِ هَوَاءٍ، فَهُوَ نَظِيرُ قَوْلِهِ: ««كِلْتَا يَدَيْهِ يَمِينٌ»» عَلَى مَا سَبَقَ فَالْجَوَابُ مِنَ الْأُسْلُوبِ الْحَكِيمِ سُئِلَ عَنِ الْمَكَانِ؟ فَأَجَابَ عَنِ الْإِمْكَانِ، يَعْنِي إِنْ كَانَ هَذَا مَكَانًا فَهُوَ فِي مَكَانٍ، وَهُوَ إِرْشَادٌ لَهُ يَفِي غَايَةً مِنَ اللُّطْفِ.

(رَوَاهُ التِّرْمِذِيُّ، وَقَالَ: قَالَ يَزِيدُ بْنُ هَارُونَ): وَهُوَ أَحَدُ مَشَايِخِ شُيُوخِ التِّرْمِذِيِّ مِنْ رُوَاةِ هَذَا الْحَدِيثِ (الْعَمَاءُ) أَيْ: يَعْنِي مَعْنَاهُ (لَيْسَ مَعَهُ شَيْءٌ): وَفِيهِ إِيمَاءٌ إِلَى كَلَامِ بَعْضِ الْعَارِفِينَ فِي هَذَا الشَّأْنِ كَانَ اللَّهُ وَلَمْ يَكُنْ مَعَهُ شَيْءٌ وَالْآنَ عَلَى مَا هُوَ عَلَيْهِ كَانَ، وَإِشَارَةٌ إِلَى قَوْلِهِ تَعَالَى: كُلُّ مَنْ عَلَيْهَا فَانٍ